Mr S Wing, Chair, HSE
Mr P Clark, AIPGT
Mr C Musgrave, Transco
Mr B Tomkins, PEFD
Mr T Small, HID
Ms L Stanley, PEFD
Mr K McFadyen, HID, Secretary
Mr Wing introduced himself as the new Chair. Following a reorganisation within HID he had succeeded Dr Johnson as responsible for the Gas and Pipelines Unit.
The minutes had been circulated to members for comment prior to publication on HSE's website and were formally agreed.
The actions on HSE at minutes 3 and 7 had been discharged.
Dr Johnson had written to Transco on 2 October 2003 regarding the revision of the guide. Copies were distributed to members present. The intentions expressed in the letter were to bring the guide in line with the provisions of the Fees Regulations that allowed HSE to charge for certain functions under the Gas Safety (Management) Regulations 1996 and enforcement of the relevant statutory provisions relating to protecting persons from the risks arising from the way that gas is conveyed or used in a network. The effect of this would be that HSE would charge for a wider range of activities than hitherto, but not until the published guide had been updated. This would mainly impact upon Transco, although there was a potential impact on the independent companies.
Industry felt that the current guidance was in line with the
original policy intent to recover the costs of permissioning
regimes and that this move would extend the area of uncertainty
regarding relevant statutory provisions. The revised guidance
needed to be clear and it was agreed that the draft amendment would
be sent to industry members to comment on the clarity.
Industry asked whether HSE could provide any data on the impact
of the change. The Chair agreed to try and see how many hours could
have been chargeable in 2002/03.
Action: HSE (Secreatary's note: Information sent to Industry on 29 October.)
Members were presented with a brief update on the recommendations from this project (OCRG 2003/5). Dr Fullam had made a presentation on his report to industry in May. There were a large number of recommendations, some of which could have a significant impact on costs and others that would have little effect. Prior to receiving this report a wider change process had started in HSE. The CEP recommendations impinged on efficiency across HSE, not only the charging regimes, and fitted in with the change process. Therefore it was decided that the CEP recommendations should be taken forward as part of this overall change process. There will be no immediate impact on costs. The earliest that this could be predicted was sometime next year. It also had to be recognised that some recommendations would have significant start up costs that may feed into charge out rates before benefits start to be realised. Some pilots of different ways of working had already started with others to start next year.
The Chair of the COMAH Charging Review Group had been closely
involved with the implementation of the wider HSE Corporate Support
Review and had agreed to update that group on progress in about 6
months time. HSE agreed to make that update available to this and
The 2002/03 trading account showed that the hourly rate out
turned at £109 against the £110 charged. The rate for
2004/05 had not been agreed yet, but it was highly unlikely that it
would increase. Members would be informed of the rate to be
proposed to Ministers as soon as possible, with confirmation
following Ministerial agreement.
An outline of the report had been circulated to members. To
this it was agreed to add industry's concerns regarding the
changes/extension to charging, particularly the legislation in
relation to the original intention of charging. Industry's
appreciation that the efficiency project was being taken forward
should also be recorded. A revised draft of the ICRG report would
be sent to members for comment.
Action: HSE (Secretary's note - circulated on 29 October 2003)
The question of the continuing need for the ICRG was raised. The ICRG was set up to deal with common issues across four charging regimes. These have settled down and common issues are now rare. Industry raised no objection to the suggestion that the ICRG be wound up.
It was agreed that the next meeting be held in Bootle after the CCRG meeting in order to reduce travel time and costs for HSE attendees at both meetings. The next meeting was provisionally set for 13 October 2005.